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Old 06-14-2010, 11:32 AM   #1
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Default Returning to the water and have a couple of questions...please help me if you can?

Hi guys,

I recently bought a '89 1700 bow rider with a Force 85. The boat was garaged and looks absolutely stunning.
I'm not too worried about the engine as I own several of the old two stroke street bikes so my comfort level is pretty high with these engines. This boat is 21 yrs old and looks almost brand new which speaks volumes for the quality of Maxum boats. Very impressive when compared to 10 yr old Thompsons and Arrowglass's that didn't look as good.

My question is why does this boat seem to soar over the waves much more then my old trihull did? I know it's not a deep Vee hull but this boat remains airborne more then any boat I ever had!! I took my daughter and fiancé` out last week for our shakedown cruise and noticed that I couldn't keep the bow on the water after getting it up on plane. It would just keep flying off one wave to another with huge smacks in between. The swells were only 1-1/2', not rough at all, not even whitecaps! My fiancé` was terrified and frankly, I grew up on the water but this does seem a bit extreme. It almost seems that I bought a lake boat and it's not working too well in the Chesapeake Bay or the Magothy river. Did I make a mistake?

Do I have it trimmed wrong? I lowered the trim all the way so the engine is down as far as it would go. Should I trim it up at more of an angle? At low (below 10mph) speeds, the lower trim seems to keep the bow down further.

Any help would be appreciated.

BTW- my trihull was a 16' with a 55 Chrysler (worst engine I've ever owned)....and if I could keep that buoy of bolts running, I can keep ANYTHING running.<LOL>

Thanks guys,

Erad,
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Old 06-14-2010, 11:54 AM   #2
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Personally, I would consider a 17 ft. bow rider a 'Lake boat'. Smart tabs would probably help this condition.

http://www.nauticusinc.com/
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:11 PM   #3
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I'm with Shrew.

Triming the drive out a little might help but, frankly, a 17' bow rider is very light weight and the minimal dead rise isn't helping.

Tabs may help but that boat isn't likely to ever ride well in chop. Wife and I boated in the South River and Chesapeake last year with out 2400 SC3 - which weighs significantly more and has far more dead rise and we'd still get beat up a bit when in the Bay.

Dan
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Old 06-14-2010, 02:21 PM   #4
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Thanks for responding....I grew up near Gibson Island at the mouth of the Magothy and used to race hydro's over at Kent Island in the early 70's. My Dad had a 17 deep V (considered an average sized boat on the bay back then other then the cruisers)and yes, there were some days that the bay was rough but most of the time whitecaps weren't a problem. Even in the 80's when my wife and I had the POS trihull it wasn't too bad. Maybe I'm more sensitive in my older(LOL) age. It was fun skipping waves in my 20's but now in my 50's, it's not quite the same. I was just wondering if i had forgotten something that was causing this boat to skip more then others. I bought this one because I wanted something easy to trailer the 4 blks to the ramp, easy to work on and easy to pay for to take my sweetheart and children out on.

I had thought about a larger boat since my budget was much larger then what I needed to buy this one but after seeing that outdrives and i/o engines are no better now then they were back in the day, I decided to go with a smaller (under100hp) outboard. As someone who has taken all type of engines apart, I don't understand why they can't build an out drive or i/o engine that doesn't last more then 3-4 years. Almost every single 22-27' boat that I looked at in May that was 5 years old or older had either the outdrive replaced or the heads/heat exchanger replaced, in some cases the boats were completely repowered at 5 years! to me, that just reeks of poor engineering. I even went down to our marina and spoke with the mechanics (I ordered a couple of pizzas and talked with them during lunch) and they all said the same thing. It didn't matter if it was a Bravo, Alpha, OMC or Vol/Pin outdrive...heck, even the larger v6 outboards have more then their fair share of issues. They all agreed that they hadn't seen but a couple of i/o boats that were more then 4 yrs old that hadn't needed a 2K repair. One thing that was mentioned was that many of the engines really rely on oil cooling and the oil coolers are undersized so the tiniest bit of corrosion build-up in the cooler renders it almost useless and most owners don't follow the oil temps close enough.

I'll do the maintenance and in fact I changed the water pump impeller and the lower unit's lube before this one ever saw the water. It had come from Pa where the original owner had run it on a lake so no saltwater. I guess we'll have to stay in the creeks to tow the kids on the tube. I may try the tabs and see what options there are for those.

Thanks again guys for the responses,

erad
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:01 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Eradicator View Post
Hi guys,

I recently bought a '89 1700 bow rider with a Force 85. The boat was garaged and looks absolutely stunning.
I'm not too worried about the engine as I own several of the old two stroke street bikes so my comfort level is pretty high with these engines. This boat is 21 yrs old and looks almost brand new which speaks volumes for the quality of Maxum boats. Very impressive when compared to 10 yr old Thompsons and Arrowglass's that didn't look as good.

My question is why does this boat seem to soar over the waves much more then my old trihull did? I know it's not a deep Vee hull but this boat remains airborne more then any boat I ever had!! I took my daughter and fiancé` out last week for our shakedown cruise and noticed that I couldn't keep the bow on the water after getting it up on plane. It would just keep flying off one wave to another with huge smacks in between. The swells were only 1-1/2', not rough at all, not even whitecaps! My fiancé` was terrified and frankly, I grew up on the water but this does seem a bit extreme. It almost seems that I bought a lake boat and it's not working too well in the Chesapeake Bay or the Magothy river. Did I make a mistake?

Do I have it trimmed wrong? I lowered the trim all the way so the engine is down as far as it would go. Should I trim it up at more of an angle? At low (below 10mph) speeds, the lower trim seems to keep the bow down further.

Any help would be appreciated.

BTW- my trihull was a 16' with a 55 Chrysler (worst engine I've ever owned)....and if I could keep that buoy of bolts running, I can keep ANYTHING running.<LOL>

Thanks guys,

Erad,
Erad, Not sure how to break this to you but that 85hp Force you bought IS a chrysler.
From a quick search:"Chrysler sold the marine division not because they desired to, but because it was demanded as part of the government's loan guarantees. Chrysler stern drives were sold to Bayliner Boats in 1983 and the outboard division was sold to the Force Outboards division of U.S. Marine - an affiliate of Bayliner - in 1984."

My father has a '94 1700 with a 120 Force on it. It has been a good engine for him, so hopefully the buyout purged the Force line of the problems you encountered with your 55 chrysler.
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:23 PM   #6
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Erad, Not sure how to break this to you but that 85hp Force you bought IS a chrysler.
From a quick search:"Chrysler sold the marine division not because they desired to, but because it was demanded as part of the government's loan guarantees. Chrysler stern drives were sold to Bayliner Boats in 1983 and the outboard division was sold to the Force Outboards division of U.S. Marine - an affiliate of Bayliner - in 1984."

My father has a '94 1700 with a 120 Force on it. It has been a good engine for him, so hopefully the buyout purged the Force line of the problems you encountered with your 55 chrysler.
LOL...WAS a Chrysler!! My 85 HP is a '89. I read US Marines total history along with Brunswick...who held both subsidiaries as well as major holdings in Mercury, Trophy, Bayliner, Robalo, Sea Ray, . LOL....and it's no where even close to the design of that old 55 Chr. I remember roping myself to the transom while anchored just north of the bay bridge and removing the lower unit to replace the impeller….and I only lost one of the 8 bolts that attached the lower end to the powerhead. Whew, owning that engine was quite an adventure….yes, I’m praying that my Force does a bit better….come to think of it, it already has…I’ve been out 3 times and it hasn’t broke….the chry NEVER did that!!

LMAO


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Old 06-18-2010, 11:31 AM   #7
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Personally, I would consider a 17 ft. bow rider a 'Lake boat'. Smart tabs would probably help this condition.

http://www.nauticusinc.com/

Shrew, I ordered a set and recieved them yesterday..then took my son out for a ride. On the Magothy yesterday afternoon, the wind was gusting to 25mph or so giving us whitecaps on the river. The Smart tabs didn't help the situation, they FIXED it!! Amazing difference! Jumps on plane with almost no bow rise, can easily run on plane at 10 mph and easily handled the river at full speed(indicated 41) with no porpoising. I bought the 12x9s which are at the high end of the recommended sizes for our boat and they worked out beautifully....

THANK YOU very, very much!

I was at a loss with it since these are the same waters that I grew up on. We never had any problems taking our smaller boats into the bay provided the swells weren't too large.. My 8' hydro never did too well but anthing else did ok in the right water.

If a 24' is having an issue in the bay, you might want to look at trim tabs for it as well. I wouldn't use the dinky auto type but the type with a pump and console control. My brother in law has a 24 or 25' Sea Ray and we were in 4 ft swells and while it wasn't as smooth at your living room, we weren't getting beat up.

erad
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:37 PM   #8
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The Smart tabs didn't help the situation, they FIXED it!!
Hey, this is Great News!!! I'm glad that worked out well for you. I'm sure you not only improved the handling of the boat, but the safety, the value and even increased the number of boating days overall. Not to mention, you'd probably only need to terrify your finace a few more times before you find yourself boating alone. That's no fun. Who wants a toy their family doesn't want to go on with you.

BTW- Thanks for the follow-up. It's not the questions or the litany of opinions/replies, but the follow-up confirmation stating what did and didn't work to resolve the issue that really enrichens the forum for everyone. Hopefully a number of others with a similar problem can benefit from this as well. Many thanks for contributing.

(Since Seapuppy hasn't given his official 'embassador's welcome' yet.........Welcome to the Zoo)
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Old 06-18-2010, 03:33 PM   #9
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Thanks for the "welcome". My fiance` and I actually enjoy doing a lot of the same things together. This is the woman who hopped on my vstrom last fall for a 3 day camping trip up on Skyline drive with nothing more then what fit in the topcase(truck) and her backpack and never complained one time. She's pretty good about things which is why I knew that if she was scared, it probably deserved to be examined. We joined the Blvd Park perch tournny for tomorrow and now we're both looking forward to it instead of just me. I had told her the tabs were a pretty good sized investment but that for her, it was ok....it made me an instant hero. She's also the kind of woman who truly apprectiates when something special is done for her so while I installed them, she came over to my house and mowed my lawn.

What you mentioned about followup is so true. These forums are usually based in the question/answer mode which seems to be a lot of the reason for thier existance. You gave me some great advice so of course I wanted to let you and others know how it turned out, along with a huge "THANK YOU".

I belong to several different motorcycle forums as I restore older Japanese bikes as a hobby...there too, most threads are question/answer....just the nature of the beast but I agree, it does get boring to read the same questions and the same answers over and over.

erad
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Old 06-18-2010, 04:34 PM   #10
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Well done with the tabs Erad, glad they worked out for ya.

After my experience on the bay last year I vowed to not splash the boat this year until I installed trim tabs. I did so this past April and posted a few details of the install on this forum in the Projects folder.

I used 12X12's hydraulic tabs (Bennett's) which, according to sizing charts, are a little under sized for my boat but those are the largest I had room for.

They made a huge difference.

Dan
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Old 06-18-2010, 05:32 PM   #11
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Greetings from another rider and a returning boater, Erad! I nearly picked up a Vstrom after getting rid of my KLR650 years ago and was put off by the pricing on the BMW GS and the Multistrada. Nice bike for sure. I opted instead for something smaller to throw around the woods (DRZ400S) but after a few years of being tossed around on the highways getting to trails, I'm betting I'll be back to checking out the Vstrom again.

There's a great group of people here and seems to be growing quickly. I've picked up a ton of advice. Glad to hear the smart tabs worked out.
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