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Old 05-25-2010, 04:13 PM   #1
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Question KIDDEE FYREWATCH / Engine Shut Down/ Override System

Trying to isolate a complete "No Start" issue that has happened two times to my 2000 37 CSR.

I believe that the root cause of the issue may be found in the "System Control Box" I have the schematic for the box but I can not find where MAXUM has located the box. Can anyone shed some light as to its location? I have looked in the engine compartment and under the dash but so far I can not find it -I know it must be somewhere.....
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Old 05-25-2010, 05:39 PM   #2
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Somthing else to check ......This same thing happend to me on Bella with one of her twins last season, the problem was the lanyard dead man kill switch on the dash being a open circuit. To test it remove the two leads on the back of the switch, they will normally be push on connections (which are prone to failure because they are not soldered or held with a screw teminal / bad design). Anyway, short the two wires together as the switch will provide when the kill switch key is installed. Then you should hear the fuel pump prime up wilth a zing. Then start the engine. If it fixes the problem clean the switch and wire terminals and test again or replace the switch too.

Bella Sera
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Old 05-25-2010, 06:33 PM   #3
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Hey Bella,

Thanks for the info but my 3700 SCR does not have a "Kill Switch"....Do you know where MAXUM installed your "System Conntrol Box"? From the print it looks like the box is hosting 18 terminals...
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Old 05-25-2010, 06:56 PM   #4
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what d ya know, I just learned somthing new, I didnt know that the 3700 (on up) didnt have lanyard switches. Sorry can't help, as my boat has a automatic Halon fire control system in the engine space so vice versa, my boat doesnt have the system control box. When you turn the ignition switch to on position does everry thing spin up, gauges, fuel pump, warning alarm, etc or is it completely open circuit? Does it effect both engines simutaniously? If so, it would be consistent with your theory of the problem. Sounds like a sensor issue in the bilge area either being open circuit or falsly indicating need for engine shut down.

Good Luck

Bella
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Old 05-25-2010, 08:06 PM   #5
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Default KIDDEE FYREWATCH / Engine Shut Down/ Override System

Hey Bella,

I have a large HALON system in the engine compartment with a system control panel at the helm. I have taken this panel apart but no "System Control Box" -I checked all the conections at the HALON system for corrosion etc all good. I know the control box is somewhere on the boat. Maybe just maybe someone on this baord will know where it can be found. Thanks for the response. I do appreciate your effort.
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Old 05-25-2010, 08:24 PM   #6
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Sorry I couldnt help F5MANN, I know how frustrating tracing somthing like this can be. Again what was the result of my question when the ignition key is on and does it affect both mills?

Bella Sera.
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Old 05-25-2010, 08:34 PM   #7
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Hello again Bella,

When the ignitions are on all gauges have power -when the engines are in start mode they try and light off but never get there. Spin burp and nothing. Initially thought it was fuel related but that is proven negative -my best reasoning now is that a safety shut down signal is being generated by the KIDDEE FYREWATCH System -I did not try to over ride the system when the issue occured. Need to find the darn box!
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Old 05-25-2010, 08:58 PM   #8
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Key on - guages power up, alarm sounds then stops?
Key turned to start - engine cranks but will not start? Or the engine cranks, fires for an instant, then dies?

Both engines exhibit the exact same symptom?

From the schematic you have how does it shut down an engine; does it kill the ignition(s) or the fuel pump(s)?

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Old 05-25-2010, 09:08 PM   #9
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Hi Dan,

Relays for the fuel solenoids go open for the engines, blowers and gen set. This also occured one other time on the port engine.
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Old 05-25-2010, 09:42 PM   #10
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Not a lot of info out there on this system - FM200?

Here's one tidbit I found - you might have found it too, talks a little about the system. http://www.boatsafe.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=135959

If working properly it sounds like if temp in the engine bay reaches 175 or more the Halon dumps and opens the normally closed circuit - which then shuts down the fuel and kills the engines. So perhaps if the connections at the canister are loose or corroded the circuit goes open briefly and it shuts things down, though in that scenario I'd think both would shut down - not just one.

Sorry - not a lot of help, just thinking out loud.....

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Old 05-26-2010, 02:05 PM   #11
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Hey Dan,

Sorry but I thought that I advised that all connections to the cannister were in fact clean and tight. I agree that there is not enough info on this system but someone somewhere can advise where the system control box was located. I am contacting MAXUM customer service providing my HIN# and asking where in ^%&^%$#@%#$ hell did the box get mounted.

Thanks,
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Old 05-26-2010, 02:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F5MANN View Post
Hello again Bella,

When the ignitions are on all gauges have power -when the engines are in start mode they try and light off but never get there. Spin burp and nothing.
I had almost the exact same issue, though a bit more intermittant 2years ago. I found the ring connector on the postive line from the battery to the starter was HEAVILY corroded. when I attempted to replace the oxidation was so far up the wire, that I just replaced the entire cable, crimped a new ring connector and never had this issue again. I ran into a similar issue recently with the forward bilge pump. The circuit at the pump was getting 12VDC, that is until I connected the pump, then the line basicaly went dead. I found that the tabs on the fuse in the board were heavily oxidized. I replaced the fuse with a new one and the bilge pump now works fine too.

Oxidation and corrosion can cause odd issues which are misleading and you may not be getting god clean connection even if you read 12V. Something to think about and look at anyway. Just my .02
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Old 05-26-2010, 03:29 PM   #13
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You did indeed, apologies that I read right by it (a pet peeve of mine, too). It's apparent you understand what you're doing.

I was also going to suggest ensuring all connections, positive and neg, that the system uses are clean and tight because it does sound a bit like a loose ground - but I suspect you've done that already except at the controller which has been cleverly hidden.

Since the Halon dump is independant of the rest of the system, as a test I'd be inclined to bypass the switch at the Halon bottle for a while.

In the absents of 12V, are the fuel solenoids normally open or closed?
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Old 05-26-2010, 05:20 PM   #14
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Default KIDDEE FYREWATCH / Engine Shut Down/ Override System

Hi again Shrew,

The solonoids are NC. I do not feel comfortable by over-riding the system. Especially as I am predominately an "outside" boater. I would rather get to the source of the issue and fix it. I am going to try and look at some injected pulses on my scope and follow the trail -hopefully I will find the damn "box". I will post the outcome and the fix once I have it nailed down.

Thanks much...
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Old 06-08-2010, 01:08 PM   #15
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Found it!

Located under the helm station (very close to the bulkhead tom the companion way -tucked away behind the Furuno Radar and CCR -There are 18 relays and the connections were corrosion free, tight with continuity and correct voltages. My plan of attack is: just run the boat and if the issue happens again, I will use the FyreWach by pass and hope the engines start then. If not I do have "Sea Tow"...
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