Damn, water in the oil! - Maxum Boat Owners Club

jamanati · 11-19-2011, 09:21 PM

Have a 95 3200 scr with twin 5.7 merc and bravo II. This past summer I had the port motor stall one day. A quick look, I had some white stuff in the valve cover. No water in the oil pan though. I pulled the elbows and manifolds and looks like the water came from there. I replaced both manifolds and elbow on that engine as well as the other. Changed the oil and filter, and I thought I was good. Winterizing them both this past weekend, same motor, when doing the oil change, I popped off the oil filter and it was the coffee colored with cream color, damn it. Looking in the valve covers, damn, white stuff again. I drained the oil, changed the filter, and filled it back up with fresh oil and a new filter. Today I pulled I drained the block again and pulled off both elbows, the manifolds inside were nice and dry, only having the black coating, no rust. Okay, good that its not coming from there, but now I guess next step is to pull the intake manifold, maybe a bad gasket there. If not, then exhaust manis need to come off and everything to get the heads off is probably next step. Or, I'm hoping someone here has seen something like this and can chime in and save me a ton of headaches. Yeah, I know, wishful thinking, but I figured to ask anyway.

pascavone · 11-19-2011, 11:42 PM

You could throw parts at it, or just do a compression test and see if your head gasket is leaking.

You could run the thing with the mainifold cooler hose off, and see it your getting water in the oil.
This would elimate your mainifolds.
But if its that foamy, i would say head gaskets.
Remember , that water will sink to the bottom of the oil pan, and the oil rides on top, so you might not see it on the dip stick.

seapuppy · 11-20-2011, 01:01 AM

well....I see 2 things that might have this issue...first off....when you initially got the water intrusion from the manifolds...the water had already gotten into the oil...so...the usual thing is to change the oil.....run it till it warms right up to operating temp...then change the oil..gotta do this something like 3 times...the other way is to get a qt of engine mechanic......pour that high detergent cleaner into the crankcase and run it for about 10 - 15 min...then pump it all out...change filter...then put fresh oil in the engine.....from there ....check compression on every cylinder....that will show you faster than anything if you have a blown head gasket......if you do..then you can go and pull the heads ..have them trued and new gaskets installed.....

that's what I'd do....

SP

Capt Al · 11-20-2011, 01:20 AM

I had a similar sounding scenario when my manifolds, elbows and spacers went beyond their lifespan (eight years in brackish water). First thing I did was hand crank the engines over with plugs out to remove excess water, then replaced the manifolds, risers,spacers and changed the oil and filters. That did the trick for me but it sounds like you've done the same so the water must be further in your block...

cunuck · 11-20-2011, 09:40 AM

I had the same thing on my 5.7 it was head gasket Do a compression test the head gaskets are week my leak was on #4#6 good luck.

jamanati · 11-21-2011, 01:01 AM

Thanks all. Compression test is something I'll do again before proceeding any further. Over the summer when I had frothy white stuff in my valve covers, I did do a compression test at that time, all cylinders were okay. I did replace the oil and filter at that time as well and I remember the oil looked like oil, not like coffee with cream. Since I pulled my risers off already and the exhaust manifolds are clean, maybe this leak is now a different leak, so a compression test is right on the mark. If they leak, I guess its head work time. If they don't, its either the intake manifold gasket leaking or a bad block. Could it be anything else other than that?

cunuck · 11-21-2011, 09:18 AM

You could have the riser and manifolds pressure tested for leaks .I changed my riser out to be safe and then tested them.Just a Idea good luck

shrew · 11-21-2011, 12:32 PM

When the motor stalled were you underway? If so, how fast were you going? What happened when the motor stalled? Did you pull the running motor into neutral at time? When underway, if you were to simply shut of both engines while running the wake that is following you will catch up to you and more than likely push water up the outdrive exhause and into the exhaust ports. Because the engine isn't running, the force of the exhaust isn't present to keep the water from going up the exhaust Y, into the risers and manifolds and into the exhaust port. (Ask me how I know about this LOL).

Does this sound like the conditions on the day the motor stalled? If so, you only need to perform a handful of oil changes. i'd suggest about 5. Run the engine up to operating temp., then for about another 5 min. Then shut the motor down, do another oil change and repeat.

Otherwise there is a leak somewhere like the head gasket or manifolds.

pascavone · 11-21-2011, 03:27 PM

I thought there is a one way valve flapper in the mainfold to prevent the wake back wash you are talking about.

I'm told that flapper can be stuck.

shrew · 11-21-2011, 04:25 PM

I believe that when the exhaust is external it is a 'Flapper', internal to the Y valve I think they call it a 'shutter valve'. It is down at the top of each pipe in the Y, not in the manifolds or the risers. They can and do get stuck and aren't the best designed pieces of equipment. Had a friend experience inversion simply from backing up too hard even though the motor was running.

BTW- was my description accurate. Are those the conditions that caused this to occur?

jamanati · 11-22-2011, 12:51 AM

Shrew, thanks for that info. Yes, I was underway and just started to get to the beginning of the no-wake zone, so I dropped speed. Then I was at about 1000 rpm coming up no-wake zone for about a minute or so when the port motor stopped. It took a bit to restart and it restarted. I got into my slip, I checked the motor and noticed that white stuff inside the valve cover. So I dont think it could have whitened up that quick, or maybe it did. In any matter, I learned something here today about slowing down too quick. I did replace the manifolds and risers back at that time, as well as changing the oil and filter. I thought I was out of the woods, cause I ran the boat for another month or so with only a few checks, it seemed okay. I will run the compression test this weekend. I'm presuming if the compression test is okay, then it could be some other leak? Can water leak into the oil through a bad intake manifold gasket? I think it can, but not sure.

shrew · 11-22-2011, 03:01 PM

Hmm, you were able to restart the motor, though. I would expect the behavior I described would hydrolock the engine. Maybe there wasn't enough water and cranking it over was enough to displace some and fire the motor back up again. Though i would expect it would have been hard to start. The minute you see water in your oil, drain the oil completely and do an oil change. If it was reversion the oil should be black after a few oil changes. If it is still milky water is getting in somewhere else.

pascavone · 11-22-2011, 05:02 PM

you would see steam in the exhaust if you had water in the firing chamber, be like a fog machine.

foaming oil dose not take much, plus it also steams as your running with the hot engine parts, and will show up in the crank case ventalation hose runing back to the air breather.

you need to drain your oil and look at it in a clear jug to see how much water is in the oil, and gauge your infilltation rate.

water inject is actually a performance option on sports cars.......

jamanati · 11-27-2011, 01:02 AM

Went down to my boat today, started compression tests. Connected to cyl #7 first, compression was 115, then I noticed it started to lose pressure, went down to 90, probably would have gone down more but I went to the next cyl, # 5. That compression was 125 and also started to lose pressure. I then did #3 and that was 135 without losing pressure. I did #8, 130 lbs, that also didn't lose pressure. Well, I guess I have to pull the heads off.

seapuppy · 11-27-2011, 02:23 AM

yep...that sounds about right........

SP

pascavone · 11-27-2011, 03:37 AM

the mechinal trick is to squirt some oil in the low cylenders and see it the psi improves.

if it dose, then its not the head gasket, its the rings.

jamanati · 11-27-2011, 12:35 PM

Pascavone, thats a good idea, I'll try that. Last thing I would want to do is rip the motor apart, do all the work, spend money, put it back together, and it still leak because it wasn't heads or head gaskets, but rings.

jamanati · 11-27-2011, 10:06 PM

Well, I did that, shot some oil in the cylinders that were losing compression, they still did, just the one side, mostly the rear two cylinders. The other side held steady, although one cylinder was about 15 lbs less then the other 3. The hardest part was trying to find a small oil can with a long enough spout to squirt the oil in the cylinder! Managed to find one at Sears. Anyway, some tips for those you will want to try this one day:
-) Get some zip lock bags of various sizes. These will be used to hold groups of bolts and nuts
-) Get some small index cards, write down what the bolts/nuts are from, place in the zip lock bags above.
-) Get some "toe tags". These are cards with some thin string you can get from Staples or Office Max. I wrote on the tags what a particular wire was for, or a hose, or anything I didn't remove, and you can tie these to to whatever you think you need to re-assemble.
-) Take pictures of everything, a digital camera with a flash is best. Take a lot of pictures. Did I say a lot of pictures? Yes, a lot of pictures.
-) Get a small cardboard box, poke holes in it to hold the push rods in the same sequence you pulled them out so they go back where exactly where they came from. Mark the holes in the box front/rear.
-) My internal head bolts, 2 were short (front and rear) the rest were a bit longer. Make notes like this on your index cards.
-) If your boat isn't at your house (mine is on blocks at the marina), take everything home with you. The carb, the risers, manifolds, distributor, including all the zip lock bags, or anything that is valuable. Maybe this is a little paranoid, but hey, you never know. Plus, you can clean the threads, gasket surfaces, etc, all at your home. Easier then taking runs to and from the marina.
-) If you're not re-assembling anytime soon, cover the cylinder walls, top of the cylinder block, basically any exposed iron that had a gasket with some heavy oil or light grease, this will reduce the amount of surface rust. Rust can form in just a few days. Easier to wipe the oil than it is to sand off the rust.

I managed to get the carb, distributor, intake and one side of the riser/exhaust/head off. In the intake valley, some white gunk as expected. White gunk on top of the head and valve cover. Didn't have enough time to get to the other side, probably next weekend.

Questions:
1) Is it better to bring the heads to a machine shop for inspection/true-up/repair, or just replace?
2) I plan to wipe up the white gunk in the intake valley and glean out the valve covers, etc. I did change the oil a couple of weeks ago, took forever since the pump I use has a siphon tube that goes down the oil dipstick and with the colder weather here in the northeast, it doesn't come out easy. I guess I can try and get underneath to the oil pan to drain out the oil, but anyone know of any other way with the engine open here a bit? I dont want to leave any water or contaminated oil over the winter, and with the outdrive off, I can run the motor when I'm done to warm it up enough to get the oil fluid enough to siphon out.

That's about it for now. Thanks everyone, a lot of helpful information in this post.

jamanati · 12-04-2011, 10:46 PM

I managed to get under the oil pan, drained that out. Heads will go to a recommended shop this week to be checked and repaired if needed. Cleaned up the all bolt threads, all gasket surface. Cleaned up the intake and other iron parts, painted them to make them look nice. Hopefully, by next weekend the heads will be ready, and reassembly will start.

seapuppy · 12-05-2011, 01:54 AM

what I used to do is when the heads came off..I'd spray the tops and cylinders with wd40...then duct tape the tops so that nothing odd fell into it....
taking the heads to the shop is a good idea...unless you have a cracked head..they can rebuild them and relap the valves....check springs..etc....so...that's good....ensure the deck of each bank is true...use a straight edge to check it...

finally..use lock tight blue on the head bolts...to get the foam out...get some engine gunk or engine cleaner from an auto parts store...it's really high detergent and put it in the oil......when you get the engine assembled....run it only at idle with this stuff in the crank case....then change the oil again after about 20 min at idle....put fresh oil in and you should have the inside nice and cleaned up...

SP